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Thread: Death of the Kickoff?

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    Death of the Kickoff?

    http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300...es-in-pro-bowl

    Rule in Beta test at Pro Bowl where scoring team can choose to give their opponent the ball on the 25 rather than kickoff (basically choosing a touchback) or retaining the ball on their own 25 and facing a 4th and 15 (replacement for onside kick).

    Hoot thought: if you want to get rid of the kickoff, just get rid of it and spot the ball at the other team's 20, first and 10. The only thing the kickoff is good for is injecting more commercial breaks (i.e., an extra potty and beer run).

    Also, some minor fidgeting with flexed receiver motion/shift.

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    Takes away from the history of the game of football. The game has 3 phases to it. Remove kick offs and punts takes away strategy and game play. Even with the kick offs moved up we are still seeing some really nice returns. They need to leave this alone and stop trying to fix what isn't broken.

    Want to take away the crown of the helmet hits? Teach guys how to tackle without their helmets.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hines57 View Post
    Want to take away the crown of the helmet hits? Teach guys how to tackle without their helmets.
    This ^^

    Oh, and didn't the Texans-Chiefs game have a key turnaround when Hardman returned a kickoff 54 yards, giving the Chiefs great field position and energizing everybody in the stadium?
    Quote Originally Posted by Elfiero View Post
    Of course I'm despicable...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hines57 View Post

    Want to take away the crown of the helmet hits? Teach guys how to tackle without their helmets.
    Been saying this for years. I spent a great deal of time when I coached focused on tackling technique and fundamentals. The NFL has gotten better than the years of head hunting receivers across the middle, but there is plenty of room for improvement.

    I wasn't physically gifted enough to play college football so I ended up playing rugby in school and beyond. Now there is a sport where people learn good tackling fundamentals. Of course, if they don't, motivation for self correction comes rather quickly.

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  6. #5
    The kickoff is a fundamental part of the game of football. Just dumb to look for ways to get rid of it.

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  7. #6
    Just leave the fucking game alone you have already fucked it up enough. You want to improve it stop allowing cheating you fucktwats.

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  8. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoot View Post
    Hoot thought: if you want to get rid of the kickoff, just get rid of it and spot the ball at the other team's 20, first and 10.
    The problem with that is there’s no replacement for the on-side kick.

    If I had my way, it would be a penalty to not put the ball in play during a kick or punt (no kicking out of bounds or through the back of the endzone) and a 3-yard halo rule would replace the fair catch. Bring back the most exciting plays in the game.

  10. #8
    While we are at it, remove fighting in hockey, the 7th inning stretch in baseball, dunking in BB. You are removing the fundamental parts of these games. Some of the best highlights in NFL history involves this part. Some of the greatest players were only good at this, put changed the outcomes for their teams.

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  11. #9
    XFL has an interesting take on kickoffs. Will have to see how that works when they start in a few weeks. Basically kickoff and receiving teams line up 15 yards apart at the receiving 25 yard line. Kicker lines up back at his 35. Kickoffs and neither line can move until the ball is touched by the returner.

    Pretty much takes out closing speed injuries and wedges.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Troglodyte View Post
    The problem with that is there’s no replacement for the on-side kick.

    If I had my way, it would be a penalty to not put the ball in play during a kick or punt (no kicking out of bounds or through the back of the endzone) and a 3-yard halo rule would replace the fair catch. Bring back the most exciting plays in the game.
    don't get me wrong (my wording above was poor)...I am not a proponent of removing the kickoff as there is a chance for a big play and, yes, onside kick adds some potential excitement. BTW - I do like my extra potty and beer run breaks...not to mention time to catch up in game threads (lol). My point is don't neuter it with crap like this test rule. Its dumb. If the NFL doesn't want it, just man up and take the heat and get rid of it. halfway shit like this is irritating.

    I would cool with a free kick (punt) or drop kick with a halo rule like you offer. That actually might put more excitement in the game given the chance to pooch punt short or long with a lot more precision while keeping it in play.

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    This is all DEBO's fault. His 100yrd return for a touch down proved a slow dumb ass LB can return it then nearly anyone can. It's just to easy to do so let's change it so NO-ONE can do it.


    Football was created with three facets of the game. Originally each facet had equal difficulty / power of the game, making strategy all that much more important. They each complimented each other.

    FAST FORWARD

    You now currently have two facets handicapped beyond compliment. Taking any, but easiest is kicking, out of the game will make the game way way way less attractive and nearly unbearable.

    REALITY

    All this rules changing / offensive power dominance / refereei-ing.............. Could have all been prevented if the Officiating was called cleanly & fairly. BUT doing that would create to much risk in the outcome of games. GREED is the father of change within the NFL. If you think this will lessen the commercial breaks you will be mistaken as somehow it will actually add a couple more slots to the game.




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  15. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Ike Kelly View Post
    XFL has an interesting take on kickoffs. Will have to see how that works when they start in a few weeks. Basically kickoff and receiving teams line up 15 yards apart at the receiving 25 yard line. Kicker lines up back at his 35. Kickoffs and neither line can move until the ball is touched by the returner.

    Pretty much takes out closing speed injuries and wedges.
    I'm interested to see how they regulate this. It's different and maybe too dramatic of a change, however, they want to make the return an exciting play.

  16. #13
    I still call bullshit that there were all these kickoff injuries. In my whole football watching life, I don't recall this rash of kickoff injuries that they claim. I believe there is an ulterior motive .

    Just imagine of there was no more kickoff. You could then pretty much get rid of special teams coaches. More importantly, no more need to draft or even roster guys who play special teams.

    Every year the steelers, and all teams, keep players who are less talented just because they play special teams. That's why Chickillo makes the team over better pass rush prospects. It's why DHB made the team over guys who may have been better at WR.

    Get rid of special teams, and in effect, you would expand your roster by 4 or 5 guys without actually expanding the roster and having to pay more guys. Most teams don't keep a 3rd QB. Most teams only carry 7 or 8 OL and the backups they keep are guys who can play multiple positions. So you end up keeping the guy that can play G/C or G/T instead of the guy who is a better player at 1 of those positions.

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    Just kick it. It seems most teams kick it to or near the goal line on purpose and then can keep the opposing team from reaching the 25. Sure, there is a chance they get past the 25 or even break one but my guess is they stop them inside the 25 the majority of the time. Seems like a dumb rule.

  18. #15
    Seemed to me most teams where aiming for the 5 or inside and covering. Consistently keeping the receiving team inside the 25.

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    The base for this change is GREED. Either they get more commercials in or pay less players from roster increase, gives teams more offensive chances to score making FF better, the base is GREED and money.

    Does anyone remember a few years ago they changed the commercial format in a game. They told you less commercial breaks and everyone (NOT all) bought into it thinking oh yea this is great. They did group commercials and did have less commercial breaks (the time action was stopped for commercials).

    WHAT they didn't tell you was those breaks were on average 21seconds longer and actually fitted 41/4 more commercials into the overall game. At the time I and others did the MATH. I posted about it.

    So you see, there is GREED involved and once the final determination of said possible rule change, that GREED will be identified. NFL football is getting near the tipping point of weather or not to watch. Potential rules changes / cheatring dynamics / punishment / officiating / are determining outcomes of games and when a game has a lot of predetermination with-in it,......... It becomes a gambler's watch.





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    Quote Originally Posted by Drink IRON City View Post
    This is all DEBO's fault. His 100yrd return for a touch down proved a slow dumb ass LB can return it then nearly anyone can. It's just to easy to do so let's change it so NO-ONE can do it.
    Deebo's INT was one of my all time favorite plays. It wasn't a kickoff though.


    Football was created with three facets of the game. Originally each facet had equal difficulty / power of the game, making strategy all that much more important. They each complimented each other.
    Football actually developed from rugby, which, does have a kickoff system. Rugby, btw, uses the same players the entire game for all 'facets' of the game. Football didn't really start with this three phase balance that you speak. The clock in rugby rarely stops...no first downs, no stop after a tackle then going to huddle up and call a new play, etc. The only time the game flow really stops is for penalty, score, ball out of play, or injury. I don't know the precise mechanics of the first official football rules...and not really important...I'm just using your quote to share some really epic Cliff Clavenisms. Just cuz I felt like it.

    FAST FORWARD

    You now currently have two facets handicapped beyond compliment. Taking any, but easiest is kicking, out of the game will make the game way way way less attractive and nearly unbearable.
    Do you remember when we used to have that thing called the coffin corner? Kickers got darn good at putting the ball inside the five and skittering out of bounds. The NFL hated that so they made kicking it out of bounds illegal. The wanted more returns. Kickers just got stronger and learned to kick t he ball through the endzone, into the stands and out into the parking lot whenever they darn well felt like it. The NFL backed up the kickoff line to encourage more returns. It wasn't until the specter of lawsuits over CTE did the NFL start trying to figure out how to "limit collisions". That is, get rid of returns. So, they moved the kickoff back to where kickers could put it out of the endzone again. And now you see this "beta rule"..its clear they want to get rid of the returns but don't have an answer to the biggest bugaboo as pointed out above, onside kicks. If you don't line up for the kick, you can't surprise with the onside kick. Fans want the returns, NFL attorneys don't.

    REALITY

    All this rules changing / offensive power dominance / refereei-ing.............. Could have all been prevented if the Officiating was called cleanly & fairly. BUT doing that would create to much risk in the outcome of games. GREED is the father of change within the NFL. If you think this will lessen the commercial breaks you will be mistaken as somehow it will actually add a couple more slots to the game.
    Officiating can't be called cleanly and fairly because of instant replay and the idiotic goal of perfection. Replay has rendered the rules to be written to cover things that happen at 1/30th of a second...faster than the eye can see. It is impossible for the onfield refs to make certain calls because they can't see what replay shows. Before replay, bad calls happened and were part of the game. Hell, it was part of the fan experience...arguing over the play. Replay has driven ridiculously complicated rules to cover things that can only be seen upon review.

    I absolutely agree with you that greed drives this league. Its a company and like all companies, profit matters. So does consumer perception. Don't believe me? I give you Ray Rice. He was a 2 game suspension because he sold jerseys until the video came out and consumer perception went to outrage. Now the guy is out of the league (which is correct, but that was what the first ruling should have been before all the outrage.) So, what is driving the narrative on kickoffs isn't commercial breaks, its the threat of litigation and, ultimately, consumer perception. Do you think mommies and daddies are going to raise little johnny to play and watch football if the NFL is overshadowed by a CTE lawsuit? Yes, it is all about the money and has been since the beginning of the SB era at least.

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    HOOT, .........American Football.......................... GREED


    TOTALLY AGREE with you Cliff...............!!!!! love it








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  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by TDX27 View Post
    Just kick it. It seems most teams kick it to or near the goal line on purpose and then can keep the opposing team from reaching the 25. Sure, there is a chance they get past the 25 or even break one but my guess is they stop them inside the 25 the majority of the time. Seems like a dumb rule.
    it’s an easy fix if they want more touchbacks. In college, you can fair catch the kickoff and get it at the 25. That gets rid of the short kickoff. NFL should do a mix 0f the rules. For a traditional touchback in the endzone, the ball goes to the 20 but a fair catch goes to the 25. It rewards a good kicker. It also allows the receiving team the choice to return it or not.

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    Get rid of KOs in OT by adopting the college rules.


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